Q&A | Discussing extremism in Orange County with Brian Levin

As hate groups continue to exist in Orange County and frequent Chapman’s campus, The Panther discussed the phenomenon with expert Brian Levin. Photo courtesy of Levin

A planned April 11 White Lives Matter rally in Huntington Beach may prompt some to renew reflection on the presence and methodology of extremist groups in the Orange County area. While these groups have a long history in broader Orange County, they have made their way in the past few years to Chapman's campus. 

In a continued attempt to analyze why extremist groups target college campuses — specifically in Orange County — The Panther spoke to Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism and professor of criminal justice at California State University, San Bernardino.

Levin’s answers have been lightly edited for clarity and stylistic standards. 

Q: Why would you speculate that Chapman has been a target for these groups to advertise?

A: A lot of colleges have been hit. I think some of it is because of proximity. I think part of it is that it’s in Orange County, but these folks hit campuses from San Jose all the way down to San Diego. A lot of the time, I’m the one calling campus police because I track some of these groups. Also, I think some of it is because, post-Charlottesville, a lot of these groups were looking for something to show they’re still active, and this is the easiest way they can get attention.

Q: Have you had any experiences locally with white supremacists? 

A: I saved the life of the “Grand Dragon” of the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) at a rally in Anaheim in February 2016. Before I could get there to help him, (protestors) had already beat the crap out of him. I’ve been going to hate rallies for three decades. 

In that moment, a bunch of Klan members were getting out of an SUV and they were attacked and divided (by anti-racist protesters). The SUV drove off leaving three Klan members — one on the opposite side of the street and the two others on my side. The Grand Dragon, as he was running away, fell and was shed upon by a mob. I put myself over his body, outstretched my hand, got him up and they were still after him. 

They pounded the daylights out of him. He lost his spleen, busted his knee, broke his ankle, injured his wrist and took lacerations to the face. We were shed upon by a mob that was armed with wooden planks. When it was done, I asked him, “How does it feel that your life was saved by a Jew?” and he said, “Thank you.” 

The same guy showed up at the White Lives Matter rally (in Huntington Beach April 11) and was trying to get people to go to it. That was really disappointing for me. He had an opportunity to change; as long as God gives you a breath, you can change.

Q: Could you tell me a bit about why these white supremacist groups are prevalent here in Orange County? 

A: One, Orange County is in a state of change. When I looked four years ago at violent public demonstrations in California, the top two counties were Orange and Alameda. Also, Orange County traditionally was a suburb that in the past was far less diverse. We’ve had a history of various hate groups in the county over the years. 

Most recently, we’ve seen activity by groups like (the Rise Above Movement) and we had the killing of Blaze Bernstein by a member of the Atomwaffen Division (in 2018). Particularly when folks see change, that gives extremists a wedge to exploit those fears. 

Q: What is your background in studying these extremist groups? 

A: I got interested in high school in AP American History with Plessy v. Ferguson. Then, when I was in college, I (majored in) American History with a concentration in African American History. Then, I went into the New York City Police Department. After, I became a lawyer and the first thing I did was represent a variety of groups, particularly here in California. One of the things I became known for were the two U.S. Supreme Court briefs in the landmark hate crime case Wisconsin v. Mitchell, where the constitutionality of hate crime laws was on the line. I have also worked in the 1990s as the associate director of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Klan watch Militia Task Force. I founded my own center (The Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism) at a university in New Jersey (Stockton College, now Stockton University) in 1999 and I brought it out here.

Q: Is it ever emotionally taxing to research these hateful groups?

A: What’s mostly taxing is when people get hurt — particularly victims.  But the grace that I see out of so many different communities — the faith community, the LGBTQ community, the immigrant community — it’s a wonderful thing. 

These folks over the years have become family for me. But what’s the most (emotionally draining) is when people are hurt. I’ll never be able to shake that. The other bologna I can shake, like being called names or the occasional threat.

Q: Have you ever had trouble with what the boundary is between your own values and having to enter into the mindset of these extremist groups? 

A: No, because what’s interesting is some of them are just plain sociopaths. But a lot of them have had some experience in life where they’re taking their pain out on others. There’s a saying: “I’ve never met a criminal I didn’t feel sorry for.” On some level, I have empathy that they sunk so low that this is the straw they have to grasp on.